when I raise ears it does not raise eyebrows

[Shron]

This is my first day on the forum. I ordered the CD, but it has not arrived yet, and I have not done any of the exercises yet.

I'm female, but I've had low eyebrow position and a slight brow ridge my entire life (it looks slightly masculine, but not neanderthal .
When I contract my occipitalis, my right ear definitely moves, and my left ear moves a tiny bit, but my eyebrows do not move at all. In fact I'm making my reading glasses pulse a little bit right now, but my eyebrows are still. Is it possible to engage the occipitalis and not have the eyebrows move? Are my eyebrows not moving because my occipitalis is weak? I'm a patient and disciplined person, and I'd be willing to exercise my occipitalis every day of my life if it'd raise my eyebrows, but if my occipitalis only affects my ears and not my eyebrows, then I'd prefer to focus on exercising other problem areas.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thank you!!

[Nonie]

I am not sure why you think the eyebrows should move when you contract the occipitalis. I don't remember Tom ever saying that should happen, although I would not be surprised if his do move, considering his muscles have had years of training and therefore have got excellent tone found perhaps in no other.

What I do know is the scalp exercise is two fold:

1. You contract the occipitalis muscles, the ears move back;
2. You contract your frontalis muscle by raising your eyebrows, and ears generally move up.**
   
   And the two movements happen alternately.

**I have not noticed my ears moving up when I raise my eyebrows but I don't doubt that this either in the making or it happens ever so slightly that I don't see it because my muscles are not yet strong enough. Furthermore, unlike Tom whose years of experience have made it so that he does not have to do the two movements separately and deliberately, but rather when he engages his occipitalis, his frontalis relaxes automatically and when he engages his frontalis, his occipitalis relaxes automatically because the muscles work antagonistically, I am still a long way from that and I usually have to do the exercise in two steps--although now I do it so smoothly you wouldn't be any the wiser of the deliberate distinct directions my mind is dictating.

So my two steps go like this: I raise my eyebrows (frontalis contraction) and then I lower them (frontalis relaxation) then almost immediately contract occipitalis (ears move back) then relax occipitalis (ears return to resting position). Put another way, the mental series of commands go something like this: Eyebrows UP then RELAX, Ears BACK then RELAX, Eyebrows UP then RELAXED, Ears BACK then RELAX...and so on.

If you think about it, the scalp exercises engages two muscles: frontalis and occipitalis. The frontalis muscle contraction is what raises the eyebrows; the occipitalis muscle contraction is what pulls ears back. So focus on that. I don't doubt that when muscles get stronger, ears will move up with the frontalis contraction. I am also sure, because I see it in myself, that with improved tone, you will also notice your temple skin gets pulled back with the occipitalis contraction (so because of that maybe eyebrows get a slight pull back--the skin at the end of mine does). Why? Because as I stated in another post a few weeks ago, I do believe that the more toned facial muscles become, the more any contraction that previously only moved one part of what you see starts to engage more visible areas of your head. This is why for many people doing the scalp exercises for the first time, because muscles are still weak, they may need props to help identify what is really happening because the effect of a contraction may not be significant enough for the eyes to witness any external movement. But as the muscles get stronger, then not only is the external effect more obvious to the eye, but in time, it becomes a FELT movement so that not only is the need to touch or use a prop necessary in order to know it is happening, the need to use a mirror to see the effect will also become unnecessary because the movement will be one you can FEEL/SENSE.

[Tom Hagerty]

Shron, first of all I'm going to tell you something depressing. In the last year about twenty-five guys (no women) have sent me videos of themselves doing the scalp exercise. I told them to send me videos taken from the side view doing the entire scalp exercise, that is, contracting the frontalis and then the occipitalis. I told them also to send me a video of them contracting just the occipitalis muscle at the back of the head. Much to my surprise, half of these guys had no (zero) contraction of the occipitalis muscle. The other half were doing the scalp exercise correctly, getting a strong alternating contraction of both the frontalis and occipitalis muscles.

You have to gain control of that powerful muscle at the back of your head. This is not easy. But once you gain control of it and exercise it, that muscle becomes super-strong. It pulls up and back on the upper face, smoothing out any lines in the forehead, and even raising the eyebrows a bit. When the scalp exercise is done right, and done for many months, it produces a vibrant-looking upper face. You might not notice the change because the change happens so slowly, but other people will notice that your face is more expressive, more toned-up, and younger looking. You'll get some positive testimonials.

When I contract the occipitalis muscle at the back of the head, I see my eyebrows rise a little. There is nothing dramatic in this. They lift only a small fraction of an inch, but the movement is completely visible. And when you are contracting the occips you will see your ears move closer to your skull. Without ear movement you are not doing the scalp exercise right.

Your frontalis muscle will give you no problem (I hope). When you contract this muscle, you will definitely see your eyebrows move. When you are learning the exercise (a really tough task), you can contract just your frontalis or just your occipitalis muscle or go for the alternating contraction. But the main problem is eventually gaining complete control of that difficult occipitalis muscle. When you get my DVD is a few days you can watch my demonstration.

Nonie said, "The frontalis muscle contraction is what raises the eyebrows; the occipitalis muscle contraction is what pulls ears back. So focus on that." That's it. But it's easier said than done.

In the email you sent to me, you described the indentation that started to appear near the end of your mouth. Ask another question about that problem and include the drawing you sent me showing what that indentation looks like.

[Shron]

HI Tom.
I posted my question regarding the dents above my upper lip corners in my post to the forum around noon today entitled
"1st post! Buccolabial, jowls, low eyebrows "

I posted a total of 3 posts today, including this one. Did my previous two posts not make it?

Thank you!!

[Shron]

Nonie,

thank you so much for taking the time to type out that helpful info for me. I sincerely appreciate it!

Please forgive me for sounding pushy, but If you have time, will you please look at my two earlier posts from today entitled "1st post! Buccolabial, jowls, low eyebrows" and "shorten the philtrum?" and please give me your opinion?

Thank you!!

[Nonie]

Nonie,

thank you so much for taking the time to type out that helpful info for me. I sincerely appreciate it!

Please forgive me for sounding pushy, but If you have time, will you please look at my two earlier posts from today entitled "1st post! Buccolabial, jowls, low eyebrows" and "shorten the philtrum?" and please give me your opinion?

Thank you!!

I read your first post and honestly at first glance I am not sure I am even qualified to comment. I really only know what I have learned from trainers or experienced myself, so when I come across something new to me, I prefer to leave it to experts like Tom to share from their understanding of facial anatomy and aging.

(Just between you and me, I decided about 12+ years ago, that learning about facial anatomy was more headache than I could be bothered to deal with. You see, I had just completed 4 months of a program in which every exercise was explained with details of the muscles that will be targeted. When things went south with that program, I thought all this newly gained knowledge and understanding would help me fix problems I got from the program, but it was all in vain. All the scientific references of targeted muscles and my studying how they lie to try to understand how to correct the ugly build proved to be totally useless to me--not to mention I didn't see anyone else with the same negative effects declaring success from having used this anatomy knowledge. IOW, knowing this extra information, which I had never had to for 15 years before proved to be more work than it was worth. Since I had had 15 years of no problems and great success not knowing all that stuff, I reverted back to being a follower when it comes to face exercises instead of trying to be an expert. I left the understanding of whys, whats, hows and whens to the experts, relying on these experts for direction when something needs fixing. As the adage goes, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". Not knowing what is going anatomically is apparently my not broken state.)

[Shron]

Nonie,

Thank you for responding to my posts.

I just looked at your photos, and you have not aged! Your beautiful ageless face is all the encouragement I need to start a facial exercising program.

Can you say or can you hint as to which program it was that set you back for a while? I want to make sure and not try that program. I'm assuming that it was not Eva Fraser or CFF. You obviously know what you are doing, and you are getting great results, and I just want to avoid the program that had temporarily set you back.

Thank you again!!