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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Does anyone else find one ear moving more than the other? For me, my left ear moves very conspicuously but the right one hardly budges. Will I ever get to a point where the right starts to move too?

Tom, I know you have a DVD for this exercise, but I wonder whether it is worth getting it if I already have the general idea of how to do the exercise. In other words, is there anything else it could add to what I know?

Coincidentally, the right eye needs more work than the left as far as toning is concerned. Which is somewhat frustrating since the right side seems so immobile so that I don't really feel the advanced form of Exercise 1 doing anything for my eye. :-( Still, I continue to do the exercise hoping that as my muscles get stronger, I'll get a better, more obvious contraction. Am I on the right track?
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 36
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

C M:

On the Discussion Forum of my other site, www.hairloss-reversible.com, several people have commented on the lack of a symmetrical contraction of the scalp muscles while doing the scalp exercise. The main complaint was that one ear or one side of the cranial musculature would not move as well as the other side. But almost all of these people in future posts said that eventually the strength of muscle contractions evened out. Most people have symmetrical contractions to begin with, but those that don't eventually get muscles on both sides of the head working equally.

"Tom, I know you have a DVD for this exercise, but I wonder whether it is worth getting it if I already have the general idea of how to do the exercise."

If you're doing the exercise right, if you have gained control of both the frontalis and occipitalis muscles, then there is no need to buy the video CD. This is just for people who have real problems gaining control of the muscles at the back of the head - the occipitalis muscles.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thanks for your response, Tom.

I'll keep at it, and let you know of my progress down the road.

I might still get the DVD for my hubby if he doesn't eventually figure it out with my direction.
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Kate B
New member
Username: Catherine_b

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Finally I am able to do the scalp exercise right. It took me forever to get control of that muscle at the back of the head. But now that I am doing the exercise I see improvement is the way my eyebrows look. They seem higher. The skin around my eyes also looks tighter. This is a great exercise. I'll be doing it the rest of my life. It makes my face more expressive and younger looking.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 17
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I too love to do this exercise and will do it anywhere and anytime I think of it.

I'm trying to get my hubby to do it too but so far he hasn't been successful at doing it. Kate B, how long has it taken you to master the exercise?
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Kate B
New member
Username: Catherine_b

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I was about to give up on the scalp exercise because no matter what I did I could not get a contraction out of the occipitalis muscle. But finally one morning when I was still lying in bed with my head on a pillow, I felt a slight twinge in that muscle. There must also have been a slight movement of the scalp.

After that initial success I was able to get that muscle working at full strength within a week. I had a real sense of accomplishment with this. It is a good exercise not just for the face but for getting rid of scalp tension too.
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Florence R
New member
Username: Florence

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I am worried about getting horizontal lines in my forehead when I do the scalp exercise. How can I avoid getting these lines? Is there a way to do the scalp exercise without getting these lines?
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 26
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 04:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hey Florence,

I've been doing the exercise for a few years now, and I don't have horizontal lines. Granted I wasn't lifting my eyebrows to get a full movement of the scalp (Didn't know I had to), but now I do and still no lines. What I do know, from reading other face exercisers' experiences is when you start toning your face muscles, as they build and get firmer, they push out on the skin and therefore your wrinkles may appear bigger, but really it's the muscle underneath pushing outward opening up the wrinkle. Eventually the skin smoothens out.

I think Tom's forehead is good proof that doing the scalp exercise the way he does it won't give you horizontal lines. I particularly like that photo of him facing the direction of the sun and no frown lines are showing!
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Paul W
New member
Username: Foogjunk

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2008 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Well, I have learned to wiggle my ears, using the techniques described on this site. I can't seem to keep my right eyebrow from raising a bit, yet, but I think I'll get that control soon.

For this exercise, is the idea to contract the frontalis while relaxing the occipitalis , then contracting the occipitalis while relaxing the frontalis? Or, do you contract both at the same time, then relax both at the same time?
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 50
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Paul W:

Read the sidebar on the Scalp Exercise page. You will see that the frontalis and occipitalis muscles are antagonistic muscles. This means that when one contracts, the other relaxes automatically. In other words, you do not have to consciously try to relax the muscle that is not contracted.

Don't try to contract both the frontalis and occipitalis at the same time. This is not only almost impossible to do; it's also counterproductive.
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Paul W
New member
Username: Foogjunk

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hmmm... I must be pulling back my ears by using some muscles other than the occipitalis, then. In fact, I've seen (perhaps on this site somewhere) that there are a few tiny muscles right behind the ears. I wonder if that's what I'm using. I suggest that that is what may be happening because I am definitely able to move the ears up and back while raising the eyebrows. In fact, raising the eyebrows slightly assists with this; it doesn't feel to be the opposite at all. Shoot! I'm thinking I worked up the wrong muscle. Though my ears are a wigglin', now that I put my hands on the back of my head, I don't feel any contraction at the back of the head.

Thoughts?

By the way, Tom, you're way too kind for answering so many questions that are thrown into this forum.
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 54
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Paul W:

"I must be pulling back my ears by using some muscles other than the occipitalis, then."

I don't think so. Very few people have control of the auricularis muscles - those three fan-shaped muscles around the ears. Dogs and cats have complete control of them but humans don't.

You're probably using the occipitalis to pull back your scalp (move your ears) but have not yet completely isolated them. You'll gain focus with practice. Don't be impatient about this. It takes time to do the exercise right.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hey, looks like I'm in the same boat as Paul, Tom. I find it very awkward to frown and contract the occipitalis. It is much easier for me to raise my eyebrows then pull back the ears.

As I stated before, I never knew that the scalp exercise involved the eyebrows at all. I thought that the raising eyebrow part was only a learning step and that once one had learned to move the ears using the occipitalis, then the eyebrow raising was no longer required. So for years, I've done the exercise only using my occipitalis.

When Tom said that for a deeper contraction the eyebrows must be used, I started to do the exercise the way Paul does it: Raise the eyebrows and contract the occipitalis pulling ears back. It seemed the most natural thing to do. Why? Because when I contract my occipitalis and move my ears back, the skin on my forehead seems to move up ever so slightly too. So I assumed that contracting the muscles at the back of the head and raising eyebrows was actually the muscles working in agreement not antagonistically. I still find it much easier to just use my occipitalis by themselves for my scalp exercise, than involving my eyebrows too. I wonder if that's because I do it opposite of how it should be done(?). Anyway, only because the way w/o the eyebrows is easier for me, that's how I have continued to do the exercise, which is just as well since I would have been doing it wrong!

I find this very interesting. Tom, at the risk of driving you mad, I will ask you to please use layman terms and explain the exercise once more. Assume I don't know what to contract is or which way is which; just use phrases like "lift eyebrows" and "pull ears back" and "relax ears" and "frown" so I can see which two steps go together.

As I said before, if I move my ears back so my glasses move, and place my hands at the back of my head, I feel the muscles at the back of my head move. If I place them on my crown, I feel the scalp move back as my ears move back. My forehead appears to lift slightly as can be seen by the slight upward movement of eyebrows when I move my ears back. Relaxing the muscles at the back of the head, makes ears and the scalp at the crown move forward, and let's my eyebrows drop back to their normal position, forehead also relaxes instead of having that pulled up and back feel to it.

So is Paul right and we are using a totally different muscle after all to move our ears?
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 56
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

C M:

"I find it very awkward to frown and contract the occipitalis."

Just to get one thing out of the way: you never frown while doing the scalp exercise. You don't want to bring the frowning muscle (procerus) into play.

After you get the video CD I sent you, write another message here and tell me if the problem is solved. I think my demonstration will clear up any misconceptions about how to do the scalp exercise correctly.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

OK, Tom, just for my own peace of mind till I get the video, please tell me what movement of the eyebrows corresponds to contracting the frontalis. Raising them or lowering them?

If it RAISING EYEBROWS = CONTRACTING FRONTALIS then I totally "get" the exercise and that is how I've always understood it.

I just understand things better when explained less scientifically, using visual descriptions/expressions. So when you talk of contracting frontalis, I imagined them getting shorter when one frowns. Looking at the diagram now, I think I see clearly that eyebrows go up when they contract as they shorten lifting eyebrows up. Am I right?

(BTW, I never frown doing the scalp exercise. As I mentioned before, I have always done the exercise w/o involving my eyebrows or voluntarily involving frontalis muscles and find it more natural and relaxing this way.)

So Paul, as long as I am right that contracting frontalis = raising eyebrows, then I am on the same page as Tom and would agree that it'd be most difficult to contract occipitalis and relax frontalis, or vice versa. Both must contract together, and relax together.

Tom I do need you to confirm that my "equation" above is correct. (Pretty please?)
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 57
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

C M:

"Both must contract together, and relax together."

We are not on the same page at all. You'll have the video CD perhaps by Saturday. You'll then see that these two muscle groups - the frontalis and occipitalis - do not contract together.

Watch the video a few times and you'll find out how to do the exercise correctly.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom:

Got the video CD and I see how you do the exercise. I'm jealous that your scalp is so supple and that it moves so much like a pet sitting on your head. Very impressive! And yes, I totally get the exercise now and thank you kindly for taking the time to point out my misunderstanding. I've done this exercise for years but have always done it without involving my frontalis muscles. When you said they were to be involved, I was doing it all wrong--which might explain why I found it difficult and thus returned to my old way of doing it. I now see that you raise eyebrows first, then you contract occipitalis pulling ears back. I notice your scalp moves forward slightly during the eyebrow raise and back afterwards during the occipitalis contraction.

It will take me a while to learn to isolate the frontalis and contract it with occipitalis relaxed since I had started to do it wrong so I need to unlearn that counterproductive move of trying to contract both at the same time. (No wonder it was so difficult!) I find that if I place my hand at my hairline, I am able to do each move exclusively since the occipitalis contraction clearly moves my scalp back, I can use my hand to make sure my scalp isn't moving back that way during frontalis contraction. I am very inspired and hope to be able to report that the exercise has become second nature in a few weeks.

Thanks again, Tom, for all your help!
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Therese Foure
New member
Username: Kind_gal

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

How do I get the CD video so that I know if I am doing the scalp exercise correctly? The description of the exercise on the above message is clear but I still think I need a visual guide.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Therese:

Tom explains how you might get his video CD on his other site at the bottom of this page:
http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/my_approach2.htm
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Rachel
New member
Username: Pleasant_prospect

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ok... I am a beginner to this, so please excuse if I have missed this clarification somewhere in the discussion. But just to make sure...contraction of frontalis = raising of eyebrows does not involve simultaneous wrinkling of forehead, as I would imagine this would be counter productive to achieving a smoother forehead. I think I have got the hang of contracting the occipitalis, cos my ears move at the same time as forehead moves up and back and eyebrows move up, but cant see any other way for eyebrows to move up unless I create horizontal lines in forehead...but from what I understand, contracting of frontalis is when eyebrows move up, forehead moves forward and this is without wrinkling....is that correct? Does my babble make sense? Its possible I have been doing as C M described and just been exercising the occipitalis.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 46
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Rachel:

I, like you, was happy contracting only the occipitalis, but after watching Tom do the exercise and seeing his scalp clearly move forward during raising of eyebrows/contracting of frontalis--which will involve lines on forehead--and then clearly move back during the contraction of occipitalis, I am encouraged not to leave out the frontalis anymore. I want to be able to move my scalp forward as much as Tom does during the frontalis contraction! Indeed when you raise your eyebrows, lines do form on your forehead. But once you relax your forehead and then contract your occipitalis, the scalp moves back lifting everything above your eyebrows apparently up and outward, albeit very slightly, in my face. Watching my face during the occipitalis movement, any fears of lines becoming permanent from frontalis contraction disappeared because I got a sense of an ironing out of lines from underneath. So while I have been doing the entire exercise involving both frontalis and occipitalis, no new lines have formed on my forehead. I think the thing that made me stop worrying about it is remembering that raising eyebrows is something so many people do subconsciously repeatedly, and maybe even we here do it. But in the case of the scalp exercise, that's not all you're doing. Once you raise your eyebrows, you immediately do something else so that the permanence created by doing one repeated movement by itself, is somewhat counteracted by the occipitalis contraction. In fact, doing the scalp exercise has become so much more fun to me since I started to do it in its entirety as I find I have to pace myself. It's like the difference between driving a boring automatic car and driving a stick-shift. The latter is lots more fun. And while this ironing out idea was just a guess of mine on how the muscles work to make Tom look so good, I came across something online that seemed to echo my suspicions:

"Musculus Frontalis
This is the muscle, which raises the eyebrows. The frontalis works in conjunction with occipitalis, which is located at the other end of the scalp. When the frontalis is used to lift the eyebrows the fibers in the muscle will shorten making the forehead wrinkles. But when you relax the forehead the occipitalis contracts stretching the wrinkles. Toning these muscles will make the deep wrinkles soften." (http://www.newedgeproductions.com/facebuilding/page3.html)

For a visual of what contracting the entire frontalis looks like on the skin, so you can see that lines do form during the movement, here's a clip: http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/expression/frontalis.html

Finally, I came across a discussion of this exercise on Tom's other forum and it may help clarify it a little more for you. Here's the link to the discussion: http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/discus/messages/49/415.html

Hope that helps.
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Kate B
New member
Username: Catherine_b

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

This is the most helpful thread. Thanks CM for those links in your last message. Even though I can now do the scalp exercise properly, I still like to read about the exercise and what it can do for the upper face.

Addressing Rachel concerns, I have eliminated the horizontal lines that were in my forehead. Once you get your scalp moving the lines just vanish. What causes the lines to form in the first place is the almost unconscious contraction of the muscles at the front of the head. The scalp exercise seems to get rid of all those unconscious contractions that make the face look older. It also gets rid of scalp tension after you do the exercise for a few months. At first though while learning the exercise there was quite a bit of tension.

My suggestion is to concentrate on the contraction of the occipitalis muscles. When these muscles are toned up, it is amazing how much younger the face starts to look.
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Rachel
New member
Username: Pleasant_prospect

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Thank you both C M and Kate B. I think I have the contraction of occipitalis down pat, and am continuing with that as I can see my forehead moving back and forth as it contracts and relaxes, however would really like to get hang of using contraction of frontalis also. Am hoping this will come with time.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Rachel, contraction of the frontalis is easier than occipitalis. All it is is raising the eyebrows. You raise the eyebrows. Then relax. Then you contract the occipitalis then relax. Then repeat. So you do them alternately. Raise eyebrows (don't worry about lines forming), relax eyebrows; contract occipitalis, relax occipitalis. Now raise the eyebrows again (frontalis contraction), relax; contract occipitalis, relax. Back and forth.

In the beginning, the raising of eyebrows won't feel like it's doing much to your scalp. But if you place your hand lightly on your crown just by your hairline, you will feel a very slight forward movement of your scalp when you raise eyebrows. And then when you contract occipitalis, the scalp will move backwards. I am guessing that as your muscles get stronger, the forward movement of the scalp during frontalis contraction will be much more emphasized so that it looks like you're wearing a wig that is alive. LOL That's what Tom's hair looks like when he's doing the exercise: like a restless animal that can't make up its mind which way to go, forwards or backwards. It's very cool really! <grin> )

And if you think about it, it does make sense why the scalp would move forward during frontalis contraction as the muscle gets stronger. Contraction of the frontalis is a shortening of that muscle which is how it pulls eyebrows up. Now if it gets stronger, it will not only pull eyebrows up but the upper end will pull the scalp down as if trying to bring eyebrows and hairline together because the stronger it gets, the deeper the contraction. [Tom please correct me if my logic is way off. I really should perhaps stop thinking too much. We all saw how dangerous my thinking can be...earlier in this thread. :c| )
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Rachel
New member
Username: Pleasant_prospect

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ok!!!!! Even better...I thought I was doing the frontalis contraction wrong because I was not seeing forward movement of scalp, and I seem to remember reading a discussion post somewhere where someone mentioned having to consciously cause forward movement of scalp while raising eyebrows...so I guessed there was a little more to it than just raising my eyebrows.
Maybe I should take a look at Tom's video...how much does it cost, and how do you order it? Couldn't find any info on this site.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom's video is $25 including postage if you're in the US; and $30 bucks if outside the US--extra bucks cover postage. If you go to the link below, info about ordering it is at the bottom of that page:

http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/my_approach2.htm
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Linda R
New member
Username: Linda

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Tom

How do I go about getting your dvd?
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Ellie
New member
Username: Ellie

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom:
Did you train this kid, by any chance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KotDf0UP1OQ

Looks like he mastered Exercise #5
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 112
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Linda R:

Follow CM's instructions in the message above yours. That link will take you to the page on my website where your can order the booklet and the video CD.
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Ellie:

No, that weirdo was not one of my students but he definitely has mastered the scalp exercise.
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Patricia R
New member
Username: Trish

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Tom ...

I'm 45 and lost 30 lbs after being 40 lbs over weight for 20+ years. The worst part is a little wattle under my chin along with 2 lines of excess skin going down my throat. There's also puppet lines right down to my sagging jowls to address. I really want to try to tighten this skin up. I also am working on my eyes (the hoods and under eye bags). The reason I thought the exercises would help is I have a horizontal line at the bridge of my nose that gets lessened when I raise my eyebrows. I really need to get the occipitalis muscle going to correct that( if I contract the frontalis strongly my right ear will move up a little bit). Any special pointers for a newbie? Is there hope?
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Thomas Hagerty
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 143
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Patricia R:

Your paragraph describes a whole array of problems, some of which are solvable, some of which are not.

First, just a question. How long did it take you to lose that 40 lbs? Some women who lose weight fast have a hair problem called telogen effluvium. This is a thinning of the hair all over the head. If you have no such problem, your weight loss was done intelligently.

"I really want to try to tighten this skin up."

If you were 20 years old there would be no problem. The skin would tighten after a weight loss. But at age 45 there is a problem. The skin is no longer as resilient as it once was. Of course there is some resilience, so the skin in certain areas of your body will adjust. But the area under you chin will probably not adjust no matter how diligently you perform Exercise Four for the front of your neck.

I don't like the idea of cosmetic surgery for every problem that people see when they look in the mirror, but in this case an easy surgical procedure might be the only alternative. I describe this on the page I linked to.

"There's also puppet lines right down to my sagging jowls to address."

Puppet lines (marionett lines), also called the buccolabial sulcus, can be reduced but not eliminated by doing Exercise Two for the muscles around the mouth. Don't expect any quick results from this exercise though. No matter what you may hear about quick results from companies that sell facial exercise programs, progress is gradual - many months. You have to be patient and stay with the program of exercises.

"The reason I thought the exercises would help is I have a horizontal line at the bridge of my nose that gets lessened when I raise my eyebrows."

The scalp exercise - Exercise Five - will help with this problem as well as reducing or even eliminating hooded eyelids. But the exercise has to be done correctly. And by correctly I mean getting a good contraction of the occipitalis muscle at the back of your head - not an easy task, especially for women. Just contracting the frontalis muscle at the front of the head will not get the job done.

"Any special pointers for a newbie? Is there hope?"

There are special pointers on how to gain control of the occipitalis muscles if you search through the pages of this discussion forum. There is a Search function in the left frame.

And about hope - there is hope, realistic hope, if you do the facial exercises correctly, don't put weight on again, and have a healthy life style.
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C M
New member
Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 119
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Patricia:

Just want to encourage you to stick with the exercises no matter how slow the results seem to take to come about. One thing I do is never time myself. In other words, just make this part of your daily regimen without worrying about when you will reach your goal. It will come if you stick with it.

A few of us do more than one face exercise program, so maybe down the road you might consider adding another program. And then there are products that are believed to remodel and renew the skin so while toning the muscles underneath with exercises, you could be renewing the appearance and texture of your skin. Check out www.skinbiology.com There's a forum if you need to ask questions.
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Patricia R
New member
Username: Trish

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Tom ...

I lost the 30 lbs over the course of 2 years. I'm not trying to be super thin, I'm happy being 10-15 lbs overweight. I just hate the wrinkles and saggy skin. I will research on how to gain control of the occipitalis muscles this week and go at it. I was hoping for more promising news about the neck wattle and jowls. And I do not plan on gaining the weight back (heck, I could be overweight and still have wrinkles). I just wanted a good appearance for my son's wedding next summer.
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Patricia R
New member
Username: Trish

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi CM ... Thanks for the words of advice. I am interested in topical skin products. Have you used the Skinbiology products? I have tried many skin products on the market but only achieved softer skin. Let me know if you use this and how it works.
Thanks
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 120
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

No I haven't used the products, Patricia, as I haven't felt a need to change my skin care regimen. I'm pretty happy with my skin as it is. But a friend of mine who is in his sixties has been using them for a few years and he's very happy with the products. Maybe the before/after photos on the Skin Biology website might give you an idea of what to expect: Before/After Photos
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Patricia R
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Username: Trish

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

CM .. There are alot of before and after photos to promote products that look promising but then don't pan out. I was hoping that you or somebody truthfully (not a paid actor)could say it really works. Does your friend have good results like the ones in the photos referred to me? I'd like to clean up my jaw line (little jowls)and tighten the skin under my chin and down my neck. Tom said with the #4 exercise it's not achievable. I really don't want to go under the knife (I don't have the time to be down for weeks and the $$ to support my local plastic surgeon). I have the time and patience for exercise and a topical that works though, I just can't be bed ridden. It's a shame I waited so long to lose the weight, I didn't know this would be a problem. Well I have 4 good kids (22 - 8). I enjoyed being there with them and didn't obsess about my weight. I just don't want to look like the grandmother of the groom at my son's wedding next summer. It would be great if the Skin biology works for your friend with similar results as the photos.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 121
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Patricia,

My friend is actually the guy whose photos are posted on that site. The first set of photos. If he gives me his permission, I will post other photos of him looking really good. He also does face exercises. Now you would have to contact Dr Pickart at Skin Biology with your particular case to find out just how much you can expect from the products. But even though Tom doesn't think you will get the results you would like, I still think you should do this program. You have nothing to lose and even if it only gets you halfway there, you are well on your way to reaching your goal. It is better than not doing anything at all and letting gravity take its toll.

If it's any encouragement Eva Fraser didn't start face exercises until she was in her fifties. Neither did Carolyn Cleaves yet both of them look really good. Granted they hadn't lost a lot of weight when they started and therefore may have had less to fix. Still if you could improve things albeit a little, I say it's well worth going for it.

I think improving your diet can also make a difference. I remember watching Oprah and seeing two ladies who were on Dr Perricone's diet for 30 days--they probably also uses his products--but the difference in their faces in only one month was amazing. They looked so much younger.

So eat right (see Tom's suggestions on the Nutrition link on the home page), practice good skin care, wearing sunblock/sunscreen, learn to relax and be happy, and not to look for results but rather let them find you...and in time, you'll reap the fruits of the seeds you plant.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 122
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Patricia:

I talked to my friend and he said it was OK to share some pics with you. He also said you're welcome to contact him directly if you like at the address given at the end of his testimony on Skin Biology website.

Notice how he had a square jaw and jowls in the before photo but his face became more streamlined in the after photos. I believe he does his own program of face exercises, and if I am not mistake, I think he also uses weights! In my opinion, he looks fantastic for a guy in his sixties who didn't start face exercises until later in life.

Before and after

When I asked him to what either exercise or Skin Biology contributed to his success, as far as he could tell, he said "The Copper Peptides took care of the creases and wrinkles on the neck, and the neck exercises built and streamlined the side neck muscles."
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 123
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Forgot to mention, Patricia, my buddy said if you need to contact him with questions, you can use the email given at the end of his testimonial on Skin Biology.
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Thomas Hagerty
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 144
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

CM:

Why did your friend use a gauzy filter to take the After photos? He should have used the same lighting and no filter for both Before and After photos so that there would be no question of credibility.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 124
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I don't know the answer to that Tom (nor would I know what a gauzy filter was if it walked up and bit me on the behind ) but I will ask him.

Here's another set of pics of him, looking awesome in his sixties I might add, which I hope don't have that gauzy filter thingy:
my buddy
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Patricia R
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Username: Trish

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Wow CM, your friend really looks great. I hope I can get results like that. I went to my Dr. appt (plastic surgeon)which I had for months. Well he said the exercises would create more wrinkles and discouraged me from doing them. The only exercise is to sleep on my back (don't squish your face on a pillow). Also, he directed me to his line of products (I mentioned the copper peptides). He said what he offers is a 14 kt gold flake product which I am researching still. I purchased his retinal product and a solar defense product. He said it works and it keeps his clients coming back. I also am taking antioxidants (Resveratrol and omega 3 fish oil). I think I will manage to do the exercises and remember to use oil to lubricate (I use emu oil)to prevent stretching the skin. I pretty much have to bank on the exercises because I don't have $$ in the bank for surgery. Boy, there's so many things to do to stay young looking. I hope hubby appreciates it ... Well I need to look back at the threads on how to contract the occipitalis muscles and work at that. Thanks for your help, CM.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 125
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Patricia, you are very welcome. I am a huge believer in face exercises even when started late in life. My friend is one example. Another example is this guy: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/robert What about this lady who is about 80: http://www.evafraser.com/ She started face exercises in her 50's. I can understand why plastic surgeons would not promote face exercises: how would they make their living if their services were no longer needed?

Tom, I asked my friend about using the gauzy filter but he didn't know what it was. He said he used a Kodak Easy Share camera to take the photos and that if it has a gauzy filter then that would answer your question. He said that he took the photos in the same lighting/room on different days and was only doing it to gauge his progress for his own benefit and inspiration not to try to prove anything to anyone else because after all, he was doing this for himself not for a product he was trying to sell. He was curious to see if the exercises and Skin Biology products were as good as they sounded and is very happy with the results he's achieved both in how his face and neck look and in how they feel.
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Thomas Hagerty
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 145
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

CM:

Forget about filters and lighting. Just look at the three photos you posted. The first two were taken in harsh lighting conditions; the third was taken in diffused lighting conditions. Diffused lighting can make a person look twenty years younger.

Many big stars back in the thirties and forties like Greta Garbo and Norma Shearer demanded cinematographers who knew how to take the years off their faces with lighting and filters. It's like magic.

Older women who go to ballrooms love the dim diffused light when they are dancing. They recoil when the harsh lights are turned on when the dance is over.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 126
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi Tom:

I can see how lighting can affect the appearance of lines and wrinkles, but what about the change of muscle structure. I tend to focus more on how the face lifts and structure changes, rather than what the surface looks like, because as far as wrinkles and lines are concerned, they can usually be improved with a good peel. But sagging muscles would always give away the signs of age even after a good peel if nothing changed about them.

If you look at the photos below where this lady got an Obagi Blue Peel, her facial structure is exactly the same (look at her jaw and eyelids) as before, but her skin surface is smoother.

chemical peel

I am assuming with clever lighting or even makeup, a similar or very close effect could be achieved in a photo. This is why when looking at before/after photos with respect to face exercises or face remodeling, it is the change in facial structure or lift that I focus on.

If you look at the jowls in the before photo of my friend compared to how they look in all his after photos, you can't deny the lift and streamlining of his lower face. It is this change that I noticed when I first saw his photos. His neck is also more toned and seems tighter since the structure under the skin is bulging out. Looking at the sagging in his before photo, I don't think the neck would be that toned, but I guess I can't prove that.

But bottom line is he never took the pictures with the intent of having them published and therefore getting the best image was not his concern. He wasn't taking them to convince anyone anything so I do believe him when he says he didn't use anything special when taking the photos. He just knew what he wanted to change and took the photos to track his progress, and with every one, he saw an improvement on the areas he was focusing on. By the way, the three photos I added at the end were not taken for the purpose of tracking his progress. He was at two different functions and I thought he looked absolutely handsome in both that I selected and cropped them to focus on the area in question to further show how much better he looks. I apologize that they were not good enough.

Anyway, I hope Patricia found some encouragement in any of this.
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Thomas Hagerty
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 146
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

CM:

You're probably right about the honesty and motivation of your friend. But I'm always skeptical about before-and-after photos. I have several friends in Chicago who are models. They told me that the "before-and-after" photos are actually taken on the same day. The lighting, filters, lenses, and makeup all do magical things.
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 127
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom, that is so true about professional photos. Which is why, while I think a studio photo would be clearer, I have learned from my friends who are graphic designers that professional photos are the least believable. Which is why I like to see many amateur photos, even if not taken in the same light.

That reminds me, I was showing a professional photo of someone who looks very nice to my graphic design friend, a photo I actually love but she dismissed it with a quickness that would make road runner's head spin. Then I showed her the same candidate's photos that were taken with I'm guessing the her own camera and she immediately pointed out where there was a change in pixels and texture in parts of the face probably from editing the photo after it was taken...and talk of seeing the light! Suddenly, it was clear as day and night that a little smoothing out or "erasing" may have been done to improve the photos. I was very impressed by her keen eye and how she spots these things at first glance. She does indeed work to improve photos for a living so it's probably second nature to her now. Still, I wonder how many people have ever been suspicious of that photo. I would never have suspected in a million years that it was photoshopped.

Anyway, I digress. But I am with you on this: be very suspicious of professional photos.

Hey, I know when you go to get a passport photo taken, they ask what the photo is for before you take it. I wonder if that is so that they are careful not to tamper with it if it is for an ID, and not just so they consider the size. Which would mean those might be good photos to show before/after results.
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Thomas Hagerty
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 147
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

CM:

So what do you think of the lastest photo of me and my new girlfriend. The magic of Adobe Photoshop.

Tom and friend
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C M
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Username: Ceeme

Post Number: 129
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post



Very sexy, Tom!

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